ECX AMP MT - is it worth upgrading to Brushless motor if I’m not ready to use LIPOs?

R

Rockstead

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I’m just avoiding LIPOs right now because I don’t want to deal with the extra care and safety issues related, but I will consider for the future so whatever I buy should factor that in.

I have 4 ECX MT for me and my kids, so whatever upgrade I gotta do x 4.

What is the best bang for your buck brushless/combo, I don’t mind ordering overseas . I had in my notes that the Dynamite Taser should be on my list, but I have no idea.

Same question for metal gears, it’s my understanding that you need to upgrade your metal gears if you update to brushless, is that true and which one do I order?

Then I think I’ll need a new transmitter if I update to brushless, which transmitter is good for the kids? Remember I’m buying 4 :)
 
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Brushless upgrade on four trucks means new ESC, motor, transmitter, receiver, metal gears on 4 trucks. That is a lot. If you do it, check my signature for the DumboRC radio on Banggood and you can get a cheap motor/ESC combo as well. But that is a lot of work. You will also need to change the gearing so you’ll need to test and find the right pinion and do that x4. Even then these trucks will be stupidly fast. Insanely fast. You will break stuff on brushless even on 7.2 v NiMH. Then your batteries will last maybe 7 minutes a piece.

I know you want to avoid it but the cheapest, best and most useful upgrade is a decent charger and 2S LiPo. In your case a charger that can charge 4 at once. You won’t need to change gearing or buy metal gears. Your run time per pack will be half an hour. You’ll need a 5 pack of voltage alarm/monitors ($20 for 5) and zip tie one to each battery. Toss the battery hold down and get a 5 pack of Velcro battery straps for $10 - the slots to run the strap is already there. The trucks will be faster but not insanely fast.You won’t have motor heat problems and you won’t be likely to obliterate a couple trucks because they now go 60mph.

[CA$2.72 61% OFF]10PCS Eachine Lipo Battery Tie Down Strap 260mm For FPV RC Drone RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/10PCS-Each...n-Strap-260mm-For-FPV-RC-Drone-p-1137622.html

[CA$10.92 37% OFF]5Pcs 2 in 1 Lipo Battery Low Voltage Tester 1S-8S Buzzer Alarm RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/5pcs-Remot...ts-Battery-Monitor-Alarm-1S-8S-p-1066305.html

[CA$39.56 11% OFF]ZOP Power 7.4V 7000mAh 35C 2S Lipo Battery XT60 Plug for RC Car RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/ZOP-Power-...o-Battery-XT60-Plug-for-RC-Car-p-1328341.html

Or you can go hard case LiPo. The batteries will last long enough that you will only need one each. If you want a little more safety go with a hard case. Banggood can’t ship lipo to Canada so I have bought a Gens Ace hard case 2S that is 5,000 mAh and a 7,000 mAh HRB hard case from Amazon. With 7,000 mAh it will last even longer.

I think you have a bigger safety risk from getting taken out by one of 4 60mph Amps running at once than from bursting a LiPo. ? Just zip tie a voltage meter/alarm to each one and set the alarm at 3.4 and you will be fine. Set up your charger somewhere non flammable and charge with the batteries inside a LiPo safe bag. I do mine in the middle of the concrete floor. Store the batteries in the garage in a steel toolbox or something else non flammable inside the lipo bag and keep them at storage voltage. You can be the one to check the charger setup you can charge all 4 in an hour or two with a quad charger.
 
Lephturn said:
Brushless upgrade on four trucks means new ESC, motor, transmitter, receiver, metal gears on 4 trucks. That is a lot. If you do it, check my signature for the DumboRC radio on Banggood and you can get a cheap motor/ESC combo as well. But that is a lot of work. You will also need to change the gearing so you’ll need to test and find the right pinion and do that x4. Even then these trucks will be stupidly fast. Insanely fast. You will break stuff on brushless even on 7.2 v NiMH. Then your batteries will last maybe 7 minutes a piece.

I know you want to avoid it but the cheapest, best and most useful upgrade is a decent charger and 2S LiPo. In your case a charger that can charge 4 at once. You won’t need to change gearing or buy metal gears. Your run time per pack will be half an hour. You’ll need a 5 pack of voltage alarm/monitors ($20 for 5) and zip tie one to each battery. Toss the battery hold down and get a 5 pack of Velcro battery straps for $10 - the slots to run the strap is already there. The trucks will be faster but not insanely fast.You won’t have motor heat problems and you won’t be likely to obliterate a couple trucks because they now go 60mph.

[CA$2.72 61% OFF]10PCS Eachine Lipo Battery Tie Down Strap 260mm For FPV RC Drone RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://LinkBroken/Ml3XpwGbo8

[CA$10.92 37% OFF]5Pcs 2 in 1 Lipo Battery Low Voltage Tester 1S-8S Buzzer Alarm RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://LinkBroken/hosIgGMbo8

[CA$39.56 11% OFF]ZOP Power 7.4V 7000mAh 35C 2S Lipo Battery XT60 Plug for RC Car RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://LinkBroken/sto2JrZbo8

Or you can go hard case LiPo. The batteries will last long enough that you will only need one each. If you want a little more safety go with a hard case. Banggood can’t ship lipo to Canada so I have bought a Gens Ace hard case 2S that is 5,000 mAh and a 7,000 mAh HRB hard case from Amazon. With 7,000 mAh it will last even longer.

I think you have a bigger safety risk from getting taken out by one of 4 60mph Amps running at once than from bursting a LiPo. ? Just zip tie a voltage meter/alarm to each one and set the alarm at 3.4 and you will be fine. Set up your charger somewhere non flammable and charge with the batteries inside a LiPo safe bag. I do mine in the middle of the concrete floor. Store the batteries in the garage in a steel toolbox or something else non flammable inside the lipo bag and keep them at storage voltage. You can be the one to check the charger setup you can charge all 4 in an hour or two with a quad charger.
Click to expand...

lol, true enough, they hurt enough just when they hit me in the legs when I’m not expecting it.

I appreciate all the feedback, really great post. My kids are 10-13, and I just want them to be able to have a little freedom with it right now and I can’t do that with Lipo’s.

for the Transmitter / receiver you linked in your signature, what would it compare to when looking at name brand? Would the transmitter be able to grow with them to different cars and can I easily buy more specific transmitters that can pair with it? Or is it ever possible to pair With any transmitter?

similar question for the Brushless motor/esc combo, which specific one on Bangood and how does it compare to one like the Dynamite Taser? And I see that offered in 3000 and 4000 models, but no idea which I need.

To be honest, I don’t really know what Metal Gears are but I always see it mentioned that you need to change it when you go brushless, is the KS-3518 the only thing I have to change to metal?

following all these changes, I would get used to them, even on Nimh’s if it means less play time and then upgrade to Lipo’s and I’ll have the full package and I believe the voltage alarm should be built in to whichever brushless motor/ esc you’ll recommend from Bangood.
 
ECX has a metal gear set you need. The stock gears are plastic and will not handle the power of brushless. This is the differential and the other gears in the transmission. They sell ECX through local shops (not online) so you will have trouble finding them. You will need different sized 48p pinion gears and they list 16t and 17t pinions, go with 16. You don’t NEED the new servo but they are a very good servo and I would do it. These cheap servos are faster and have a lot more torque so they can turn the wheels even when stopped on a high grip surface.

That DumboRC radio does not have model memory and telemetry that you can get on high end radios, but otherwise they are excellent. Certainly all I need. You just buy extra receivers and slap them in other RC vehicles as you get them. Each transmitter comes with a receiver and you should grab extras for other models and spares. I put my receivers inside a balloon to keep them clean and dry. The radio is 6 channel with a gyro built in so you have tons of room to grow. They are very fast and I’ve tested mine out to 400 meters - a lot more than I can actually see.

Horizon (they own the ECX brand) sells a brushless LiPo conversion kit for the Amp MT on their site: https://www.horizonhobby.com/search?q="ECX03028Completion1"&relationType=Completion1&parentProduct=ECX03028

Copy the stats. Everything is back ordered pretty much so use the stats from the options they have to get what you need.Most of the brands are exactly the same on the site. Hobbywing is higher end and more expensive. The Surpass/rocket/Racerstar stuff is all the same, just pick one that’s a good deal. Also, not waterproof even though they claim it is.The connections are soldered externally so I suggest covering those while leaving the heat sink funny exposed.

[CA$43.61 14% OFF]Surpass Hobby Waterproof F540 V2 Sensorless Brushless Motor with 60A ESC for 1/10 RC Vehicles RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/Surpass-Ho...th-60A-ESC-for-110-RC-Vehicles-p-1548050.html

The ESCs can be fragile but so far the motors are powerful, fast and work well.
 
Thanks, your help has been invaluable.

I have the brushless combo in my basket read to order from Bangood, what I’m not seeing is equivelant parts for the ECX9001 Metal Gear set and the 16T pinions, do you see an equivalent?
 
No those you won’t get on Banggood. You can get 48p pinions likely, but the metal gear set you can get from Horizon Hobby or a local shop. Maybe Amazon but watch it as people are gouging this stuff on Amazon lately.
 
The internet loves to magnify the 1%, and everybody's got a story of a friend of a friend and such... don't buy into it so much.

As long as you just keep an eye on your LIPO while charging, or put them in a special bag you can get, they're just as safe as any other battery.

I've run many different LIPO batteries for years, no - ive never had one catch on fire, no - I've never had one burn a truck down, I've never even seen one smoke.

It's just common sense. Once they start to puff a little, they're usually done. A quick visual inspection every use just to check for that or any minor case damage - which in most cases can just be sealed with duck tape (unless it's more than a case dent and an actual gouge into the battery) and it's fine.

I've seen guys run LIPO batts that looked like they were thrown down a mountain, and nothing ever happened.

Yes - accidents happen. But the reality is your NIMH batteries can short and explode as well. Again extremely unlikely, but it can happen.

I've never even had a LIPO get warm while charging, yet some of those NIMH batteries can get pretty damn toasty.

I could go all day here lol, but once you do eventually switch to LIPOs when you are comfortable, it will make a big difference. Don't let that 1% and people telling stories make you think running LIPOs is rocket science and they spontaneously explode and catch fire all the time... because it's just simply not true. Well - not nearly as true as some folks would lead you to believe.

I'd also be willing to bet that anyone who ever did have anything bad happen, was a dong and never even so much as looked at their battery for damage or a broken wire cover or anything, then when it caught fire they clutched their pearls and had that deer in the headlights look.

Beware of internet tales and stupid people. Unfortunately these days there's just as much if not more misinformation on the internet as opposed to just true info.

Also as someone else mentioned, I'd reccomend the Genz-Ace 2s 5000mah lipo. $60 CAD, runs for a good 30-40min per charge, had mine for 3 years before it puffed and died.
 
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I find the built in voltage cutoff is lower than the battery manufacturers recommend. Some of the ESC cutoffs are very low. I only mention it because you may have gotten even more life out of that Gens Ace if you alarmed it higher.

I find setting for 3.4 or 3.5 usually alarm at a momentary drop under load and I end up bringing the batteries back in the 3.7x per cell range. Just enough to put them on storage charge and balance them after running.

I agree with your point though, My son stops the truck and u plugs when the alarm beeps and he won’t let me keep running it either. My charger has a max amps setting and 10 programs so I ensure none of can charge high enough to risk damage. I always supervise charging and the batteries run so long he doesn’t need to charge if there are a couple ready to go.
 
Yeah, well that might also be a quality thing as well. I know on my Castle I can set different voltage cutoffs, there's like 5 options or something. I always just leave it at stock LIPO setting (3.7).

But I also had a... gool rc ? Setup in another truck for awhile. Performed just fine.. but fine details like their voltage cutoffs were not adjustable, and as you said, could have had slightly less accuracy which could cause premature damage to the battery over time.

I just posted my rant because I didn't want guy to be terrified of running LIPOS.

3 years out of a LIPO and I'm more than satisfied. But more life is always better. One of my older batteries was some high end racing battery.. SMC ? Something like that. Costs double the Genz-Ace and died within a year. Very disappointing. I'd recommend the Genz-Ace line to anyone really.
 
Auto cutoff usually works on the ESC. I would not trust AUTO on cheaper brand electronics. Actually, I default away from AUTO setup. If a 2S battery in my setup is needed, and that is what I built for. It's so easy to use the ESC programmer to change when you change battery cell sizes. Set your shut off to what battery your going to use. Ex, 2S is 7.4v and 4S is 14.8v.

Use Lipos, NiMh is so so long ago. It's a great battery to like give your kid to learn. Move away from NiMh if your looking for performance. Don't spend the money on a brushless setup, if your not willing to go the whole way. Enough covered with conversations above ☝️.
 
Most auto cutoffs are at or below 3v per cell. I view the ESC LiPo cutoff as a fail-safe but run a cheap alarm to beep where I want it to.

The Surpass/Rocket/Racerstar ESC prgramming card has options for 0v, 2.7v, 2.9v and 3.1v per cell. Nothing higher. I know Castle ESCs have a default of 3.1v and a high setting of 3.4v. I haven't heard anything as high as 3.7v.
 
It appears we are both incorrect.

Just dug out my castle manual for curiosity, default Lipo setting is 3.2v. 0v/5v/6v/9v/12v are the other options.

Regardless I've never had a problem. My first Genz-Ace that died after 3 years had it's last go in my backup truck which was running the goolrc system. Puffed her up pretty nicely next charge. I never dug that deep into it being pretty satisfied with 3 good years out it... but I've always had my suspicions about if they battery finally gave up, or the chinesium cheap electronics had something to do with it lol.
 
Weird that must be a total voltage cutoff instead of per cell. I suppose the ESC only sees total anyway even if you set it per cell.

The voltage alarms work on a per cell basis and will alarm when any cell hits the number which they can do plugged into the balance lead. Better quality alarms wont trigger on a momentary voltage dip under load but the cheap ones will. Not an issue I just set them at 3.4 or 3.5 and when it alarms they tend to land on 3.7 ish.
 
Depends on brand of your ESC. It depends what you have for options in your drop down/selection when setting up this feature.
Here is a chart I use and you can use for reference.

Screenshot_20200729-102528.png

My previous comment above is in reference for SkyRC electronics. I use SkyRC in my budget builds. They use overall of all cells, not single rating.

My go to electronics is Hobbywing.
 
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Great chart, thanks! Do you change the target voltage on your LiPo balance charge programs to stop short of 4.2? Say 4.18?

What would you choose from Hobbywing for an ESC for a Kraton 6S roller? Maybe with the option to go 8S?

At this point I have a bunch of cheap voltage alarms and I just zip tie one or double sided tape mount It to the batteries. They are only a couple of bucks a piece and that way I can use them to monitor voltage in storage as well. At some point I’ll have a truck where that won’t work (Kraton) but for now it’s handy.
 
Lephturn said:
Brushless upgrade on four trucks means new ESC, motor, transmitter, receiver, metal gears on 4 trucks. That is a lot. If you do it, check my signature for the DumboRC radio on Banggood and you can get a cheap motor/ESC combo as well. But that is a lot of work. You will also need to change the gearing so you’ll need to test and find the right pinion and do that x4. Even then these trucks will be stupidly fast. Insanely fast. You will break stuff on brushless even on 7.2 v NiMH. Then your batteries will last maybe 7 minutes a piece.

I know you want to avoid it but the cheapest, best and most useful upgrade is a decent charger and 2S LiPo. In your case a charger that can charge 4 at once. You won’t need to change gearing or buy metal gears. Your run time per pack will be half an hour. You’ll need a 5 pack of voltage alarm/monitors ($20 for 5) and zip tie one to each battery. Toss the battery hold down and get a 5 pack of Velcro battery straps for $10 - the slots to run the strap is already there. The trucks will be faster but not insanely fast.You won’t have motor heat problems and you won’t be likely to obliterate a couple trucks because they now go 60mph.

[CA$2.72 61% OFF]10PCS Eachine Lipo Battery Tie Down Strap 260mm For FPV RC Drone RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/10PCS-Each...n-Strap-260mm-For-FPV-RC-Drone-p-1137622.html

[CA$10.92 37% OFF]5Pcs 2 in 1 Lipo Battery Low Voltage Tester 1S-8S Buzzer Alarm RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/5pcs-Remot...ts-Battery-Monitor-Alarm-1S-8S-p-1066305.html

[CA$39.56 11% OFF]ZOP Power 7.4V 7000mAh 35C 2S Lipo Battery XT60 Plug for RC Car RC Parts from Toys Hobbies and Robot on banggood.com https://www.banggood.com/ZOP-Power-...o-Battery-XT60-Plug-for-RC-Car-p-1328341.html

Or you can go hard case LiPo. The batteries will last long enough that you will only need one each. If you want a little more safety go with a hard case. Banggood can’t ship lipo to Canada so I have bought a Gens Ace hard case 2S that is 5,000 mAh and a 7,000 mAh HRB hard case from Amazon. With 7,000 mAh it will last even longer.

I think you have a bigger safety risk from getting taken out by one of 4 60mph Amps running at once than from bursting a LiPo. ? Just zip tie a voltage meter/alarm to each one and set the alarm at 3.4 and you will be fine. Set up your charger somewhere non flammable and charge with the batteries inside a LiPo safe bag. I do mine in the middle of the concrete floor. Store the batteries in the garage in a steel toolbox or something else non flammable inside the lipo bag and keep them at storage voltage. You can be the one to check the charger setup you can charge all 4 in an hour or two with a quad charger.
Click to expand...

So to clarify, if I order this:

https://www.banggood.com/5pcs-Remot...html?p=W4130612246597201707&cur_warehouse=USA

I can use the stock ESC with a 2S LIPO and don't need a new ESC and Transmitter/receiver?

basically eliminating all this :

https://www.horizonhobby.com/search...lationType=Completion3&parentProduct=ECX03028 ?

What kind of speed difference would i see?
 
joceton said:
So to clarify, if I order this:

https://www.banggood.com/5pcs-Remot...html?p=W4130612246597201707&cur_warehouse=USA

I can use the stock ESC with a 2S LIPO and don't need a new ESC and Transmitter/receiver?

basically eliminating all this :

https://www.horizonhobby.com/search?q="ECX03028Completion3"&relationType=Completion3&parentProduct=ECX03028 ?

What kind of speed difference would i see?
Click to expand...

Yes. You can zip tie the voltage alarm to the battery hold down or to the battery of you go with a strap instead. The stock ESC and radio works fine in my son’s truck with a 2S 5,000 mAh 50C Gens Ace LiPo in it. It is maybe 10% faster but with more torque. It runs for a half hour easily.
 

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