Lipo Battery Storage & Safety

Pillowpants808

Pillowpants808

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Many of you may have been in the hobby forever and many might be brand new to RC. I just wanted to take the time to stress the importance of safety in the storage of lipo batteries if you plan to use them. There are tons of options when it comes to batteries. All different sizes, shapes, discharge rates, etc. Make sure you purchase the right one for your needs. Some people have many trucks, cars, boats, planes, drones, etc. This requires many batteries. Makes sure to store them properly in a fireproof bag and/or container and try not to over burden the container with too many batteries. Below I will share a video of a few tests that were done to show the effects of different types of batteries being stored in different containers that end up catching fire. I am in no way an expert on the storage of lipos and suggest you do yourself a favor by researching your exact needs. Your home, children, irreplaceable items are not worth losing due to negligence. So if you plan on buying and running lipo batteries, please educate yourself. This post is in no way meant to scare people away from RC. I really enjoy this forum and would hate to see anything happen to any one of the people in or outside of this community. Thanks for your time. Stay safe and enjoy your RC's.

https://rogershobbycenter.com/lipoguide

 
Thank you for the video. We know the dangers of lipo but vivid reminders are definitely needed.
Other precautions that we should be aware of is: not charging batteries with stored batteries, price of a bag/ammo can can never compare to losses from a fire. Buy to store & to charge.
 
Guys... I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk but I feel that videos like that are somewhat misleading. All the batteries in that video (and other videos like it) were triggered, in some of the examples the storage container (bag or can) was over-loaded which will, of course, make for a much more spectacular result. These videos also highlight the need for proper information.

Battery University is a great resource for information about battery technology:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion
 
I decided not to post a comment on this, back when the post was made, for the simple fact that I personally have 0 experience with LiPo's.
My initial thought (I do realize the OP stated it wasn't his intent to scare anyone off) but my first thought, was that very thing, there is no way I will ever purchase a LiPo. I love my house, and my garage way more than my car doing wheelies in the driveway.
I also thought at the time, now that Beej brought it up, is to why they have so many packs in one can.
Give me a gallon of weak gas and a match and I can make a awesome fireball too.
I can't fully believe that the LiPo packs are so so delicate that they just explode in a fireball at the drop of a hat, which is what I kind of took away from that video, yeah they triggered them, but still.
I think it would be far more proper to start with education, proper battery maintaining practices, better storage options, proper disposal of suspect packs. Which brings me to another point, in all the videos I have seen which wasn't many, I don't think any of them have discussed the proper disposal of a suspect pack. Surely you don't toss a suspect pack in the bin and forget about it.

Please take note, I am in no way trying to "argue" the post, I am the one that needs the training, and the reminder's.

My only question so far is, are LiPo packs that delicate...…..
 
First: LiPo packs aren't that delicate. Flight packs are generally only packaged in a couple of layers of shrink-wrap plastic. Car batteries are subject to potentially rougher handling and thus generally packaged in hard plastic cases (Nickel metal packs are in shrink wrap because they aren't as "fragile" as Lithium batteries.)

I've had my car packs (shorties) fall off the work bench both at home and at races, and seen cracked/smashed pack from a friend's car that was involved in a race crash. No ill effects or combusting.

That said, Lithium batteries are inherently more dangerous than Nickel metal batteries simply because of the way they work and the chemicals involved. Lithium packs are as safe as they are because of the charging electronics involved. Most packs in consumer devises such as cameras, phones, computers have electronics built in to regulate charging and discharging and to provide a measure of safety. Nickel metal batteries are, by comparison, unregulated, "dumb" batteries. RC car/aircraft packs don't contain these electronic devices because those duties are shifted to the charger.

A word on proper disposal: you fully discharge the pack using a low-wattage lightbulb/LED or resistor designed for this purpose. Once fully discharged, the pack is irreversibly damaged and must not be recharged. Once drained to 0 volts the pack is essentialy inert (the more charge a battery has, the more energy it has to create heat and cause combustion. But discharging as low as possible you minimize or eliminate the potential for combustion) and can be safely disposed of via local solid waste handlers-- give them a call and find out how they'd like you to toss the battery. All batteries contain chemicals that are more or less toxic hence the suggestion to seek guidance from your local solid waste handlers. Here's some good info on how to dispose of a LiPo safely and how to discharge a LiPo
 
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Part of battery safety is understanding how they work: how they discharge, how they charge, etc. With that in mind I'm sharing links to a few of my favroite online resources that I consider trustworthy (meaning the provider isn't--at least overtly--trying to sell something):

Battery University is the single, best, most comprehensive technical resource I've found. While a lot of the information is not specifically targeted to RC hobbyists, it DOES deal with the various types of battery technology and how they function. This will provide an excellent "BS free" foundation for more application-specific information and help you filter out misinformation and bogus claims.

How does a lithium-based battery work? (Battery University)
How does a Nickel-based battery work? (Battery University)
What is the 'C' rating? (Battery University)

"A matter of balance" RC Model Reviews produces some great information videos. How does balance charging work in a LiPo battery? This is a fantastic video that clearly illustrates what's going on and, by extension, what's going to happen if you DON'T balance charge. (It was because of this video that I was able to trace a faulty charging scenario to a lead with a hidden break in the balance lead.)

"A guide to understanding LiPo batteries" I found this page early on in my re-introduction to RC cars and the information I gained from reading and re-reading this page has served me well of the past few years and I haven't really found anything that contradicts the information presented here. A solid overview of LiPo batteries and their application in the RC hobby.
 
Wow, thanks @i_r_beej, I will read them thoroughly.
Just a question, and I don't mean to highjack this thread any more than I have already.
The discharge rate comes in varying rates(20C-50C-120C), this is just a discharge rate, if I am running the same car, same setup, that car will pull the same amount of current weather it is a 20C or 100C rate, correct? Just that the higher rate will let you pull more current if your system is setup to draw more current?
Am I seeing that correctly?

Is there any benefit from using a 100C vs a 50C?
 
WithinU said:
Wow, thanks @i_r_beej, I will read them thoroughly.
Just a question, and I don't mean to highjack this thread any more than I have already.
The discharge rate comes in varying rates(20C-50C-120C), this is just a discharge rate, if I am running the same car, same setup, that car will pull the same amount of current weather it is a 20C or 100C rate, correct? Just that the higher rate will let you pull more current if your system is setup to draw more current?
Am I seeing that correctly?

Is there any benefit from using a 100C vs a 50C?
Click to expand...

You never want to undersize the C rating for your application. If you do, the battery will over heat because the system demands more than the battery can give. That being said, oversizing the C rating will give you diminishing returns once you get a little higher than the demands of the system.

The best way to do things is to find a set of batteries that meet all of your requirements for your RCs, that way you can easily swap batteries around without worrying about it. With 1/10 scale stuff I'd recommend atleast 35C, with 1/8 scale atleast 50C (but ofcourse that depends on the capacity of the batteries as well).
 
@WithinU you are correct: a battery with a higher C rating (for discharge) will be able to provide more current, but only if the car's power system can draw that. Additionally, the C rating for discharge references the continuous current that a battery can provide. Some batteries may indicate a range (90-110C for example) with the higher number indicating a "burst" capacity-- the battery is able to provide higher current for a brief period.

Calculate maximum steady current draw: pack capacity (mAh) <multiplied by> C rating <divided by> 1000(mAh) <equals> Amps

For example: a 5000mAh battery with a 20C rating= 100 Amps; 5000mAh with a 40C rating= 200 Amps

Do more reading and spend time on other forums or around racers and you'll hear all kinds of debate about whether a 110C battery is "punchier" than a 90C rated battery. I'm not an engineer nor a chemist so I can't really answer that.

As X wrote: match the battery's discharge C rating to your car and intended use and you'll be golden.
 
i_r_beej said:
Guys... I'm sorry, I'm not trying to be a jerk but I feel that videos like that are somewhat misleading. All the batteries in that video (and other videos like it) were triggered, in some of the examples the storage container (bag or can) was over-loaded which will, of course, make for a much more spectacular result. These videos also highlight the need for proper information.

Battery University is a great resource for information about battery technology:

https://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/safety_concerns_with_li_ion
Click to expand...

You're not being a jerk. I posted it for just this specific reason, to have some dialogue run on it as there was none. Sure the video shows the guy overloading the batteries. that's not misleading. That is exactly what happens when you overload your battery with improper charger settings. There are many examples of homes being burnt down for this very reason. I posted it so people would feel the need to educate themselves on lipo batteries and whether or not it would fit their needs. Yes lipos are safe as long as you operate them responsibly. The same could be said of many things like driving a car. Accidents do happen though. that's why there are posts and websites that educate you on proper operating/storage procedures and safety. I am glad I posted it because it got questions being asked, as well as answered, and now anybody new will be able to educate themselves as safety is important. Thanks for all your input.
 

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